Geohashing Followup + change to algorithm for Europe, Africa, Asia, and Australia
Geohashing has been great fun so far. There are hundreds of users on the wiki, and I’ve gotten to wander places like this:
There’s been a small change to the algorithm to deal with time zones. This change does not affect anyone in North/South America (excluding Greenland), does not affect Saturday meetup times anywhere, and does not change any currently known upcoming meeting times. The change:
For every location east of Longitude -30 (Europe, Africa, Asia, and Australia), use the Dow opening from the previous day — even if a new one becomes available partway through the day.
Put differently (the same functionally for everywhere except islands in the mid-Atlantic):
Consider any Dow openings published after noon local time to have occurred on the next day.
This is necessary to deal with time zone problems. For a lot of Europe, the Wednesday Dow opening was learned near sundown Wednesday, which meant they couldn’t use it to get to daytime meetups. For east Asia, they had to visit weekday locations the next day. A bunch of solutions were discussed, and I decided this was the cleanest.
The official map tool is being updated with the new behavior concurrently with this blog entry. The first coordinates that will be affected by it are Tuesday’s. Again, this does not affect anyone in the Americas.
Moving on — Saturday’s meetups are looking good! Today’s location in Boston was fantastic. I wasn’t planning to go, but it looked so interesting on Google Maps that we couldn’t resist checking it out. The picture above is one of several. Saturday’s meetup is in a less picturesque place than Friday or Sunday — suburban Hopewell. We’ll probably gather only briefly at the actual point, then head to the nearby state forest for walking or town center for food and such.
Also, good luck to phire, who was last seen on IRC an hour ago, leaving to mountain-climb to today’s coordinates in Christchurch, New Zealand. Congrats to the Denver graticules for getting organized so fast (and in a split city, at that!). And thanks to everyone for going along with this idea! The weekday trips have been great fun so far, and I look forward to getting the meetups going over the next few weekends!
May 23rd, 2008 at 11:34 pm
cool this should solve most of our problems
May 23rd, 2008 at 11:44 pm
Wonderful. Could a version be made with shifted graticules for people who happen to be bisected by the current system?
May 23rd, 2008 at 11:52 pm
It would be nice if there were something more terrain-aware, or a way of “bumping” a point in case it “collides” with the ocean, as about 80% of the points near San Francisco will do.
May 24th, 2008 at 12:08 am
Checked out friday’s boston location on google, thought by the looks of it that it wasn’t worth the effort. Terribly regretting not taking the 25 minutes of driving needed now. Tomorrow’s is closer, but I’m going to try to conserve gas. If I make it, I’ll be the terribly sweaty, out of breath guy on the bike. Only 11 miles of backroads and hills.
May 24th, 2008 at 12:21 am
fluffy: It’s only about 60% water, I think :) And you don’t need to go every day — I didn’t expect anyone would. I think a meetup every couple of weekends.is pretty reasonable. Yeah, you do have a lower rate of good coordinates, but it doesn’t stop things. A number of SFers — including the guy who wrote the reference implementation — go west by one to have somewhere to get to.
Besides, with all that beautiful mountainous country to the south, when you guys have a coordinate, it’s a great one.
May 24th, 2008 at 12:29 am
alas halifax is fraught with water locations
May 24th, 2008 at 12:39 am
Thanks for using my idea!
Apologies to Greenland…
May 24th, 2008 at 1:31 am
Is there any way to account for transnational boundaries? Problem with the current graticules is that for places like Singapore (off the top of my head) you’re more likely than not have to traverse either a sea or make your way to a whole new country altogether, which you’ll see isn’t terribly ideal.
May 24th, 2008 at 1:36 am
For the record, Friday’s comic was the best thing ever.
May 24th, 2008 at 3:13 am
Thanks for the confirmation, and good luck to phire!
May 24th, 2008 at 4:01 am
Denver is so getting that twister achievement. We may even do a human pyramid to show how organized we are!
May 24th, 2008 at 4:17 am
Not going to lie…this is the most exciting thing to happen to me this summer. But boo to living on the coast where it keeps pointing me to the ocean :(
Regardless, I look forward to going to as many as I can.
May 24th, 2008 at 4:22 am
Also: any Pacific Islanders. The multitude of them that frequent xkcd, I’m sure.
May 24th, 2008 at 4:40 am
The weird thing is, that for today I get a totally different location for my Graticule with the tool, than I had found yesterday evening. (I live in the EST timezone, NL subdivision)
So right now I’m confused which one to go to. The one I found yesterday, or the one calculated today.
I’m not even sure if I can go today.
May 24th, 2008 at 4:45 am
Click on the link for my tribute to this pearl of beauty that is geohashing.
May 24th, 2008 at 8:05 am
You could just use a local exchange, London for Europe, Hong Kong or Tokyo for Asia….
May 24th, 2008 at 8:21 am
MadJo, I assume you used two different dates, right? In that case I think you need to go to the location found on yesterday, Friday’s, date since DOW isn’t open today, so yesterday’s DOW is in effect.
Gotta say, the awards won me over. It’s just too bad that I live in a country with a majority of villages where the public transportation to said places is absolutely horried and that I don’t own a car. :-(
May 24th, 2008 at 11:00 am
@MadJo: Do you mean Australian EST? Friday’s Dow opened at 9:30am USEDT, or 11:30pm AEST Friday. If you calculated a coordinate for Saturday before that time on Friday evening, it would be incorrect. Please reference the coordinates posted on the wiki to sort out any discrepancies.
The new 30W Time Zone Rule described here (and on the wiki) eliminates these concerns.
reCaptcha: dancing HEAVILY…. haha
May 24th, 2008 at 11:34 am
It occurs to me that much of the legwork for solving the problem of oceans, split cities, etc, has already been done. The solution I mention is for the US, but there are similar ideas for other countries. I’ll grant that the math and code will be more complicated. Use political boundaries, like congressional districts. For small countries, use the country itself. And so on. This doesn’t always solve the problem of some inaccessible inland areas.
Now that leaves the question of implementation, which is not easy, but collaboration on source code is good, right? If you don’t mind some areas being more likely than others, it’s possible to warp a square grid onto the district. If you do mind, then you can first pick a point in a bounding box, similar to the current system, and then, in a modular fashion, add the output of a PRNG to the coordinates until they fall in the district, *sorta* like the “rejection method” familiar to those who try to generate random numbers with an arbitrary PDF.
May 24th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
For those complaining of the water hit rate in place like San Fransisco you should try living in northern Canada, I could get to most places I’m getting with a Humvee! Oh well that’s part of living up north.
May 24th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
for points on the water, the easiest solution might just be to draw a straight line to the closest piece of mainland and declare the meeting there.
alternatively, get a boat
May 24th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
I don’t completely understand how you get the coordinates from the DOW thing and the date, how is it changed to hexadecimal? and is there a calculator anywhere that we can just enter the date in, and then be off?
May 24th, 2008 at 11:01 pm
How about subdividing the entire scheme by 10? Ten th-degree regions.
Then the hashed location each day will never be too terribly far away.
May 24th, 2008 at 11:09 pm
Next few spots for Cleveland are in the lake, great opportunity for anyone with a boat to get the coveted Water Geohash award…
Subdividing regions will mean that there will be less people at a location, they’re already pretty small to begin with.
May 25th, 2008 at 10:37 am
Oh finaly this works for europe! i hope that I will find some crazy guys to geohash with :)
Nice work
May 25th, 2008 at 11:03 am
Algorithm not so good when co-ordinates are in sea.
May 25th, 2008 at 11:51 am
Oh my, if I had the money to fly to Boston to come to your meetups I would! Man, I would love to meet you Randall. And also, I live in the frozen north redneck central. There are probably only about 5 other people who have heard of xkcd and most of them work with me. I am a shameless Munroe promoter.
May 25th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
Geohashing, dead link due to capital G in url…
May 25th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
Using Congressional districts is a terrible idea; ever heard of Gerrymandering?
May 25th, 2008 at 7:23 pm
My area is 80% water. Can you think of an official solution for coordinates in the water, Randall? Maybe something like day % 4 to obtain a direction (North, South, East or West) and then go in that direction from the algorithm result until you hit coastline, and that point becomes the meetup location?
May 25th, 2008 at 7:24 pm
Sorry, I mean day_of_the_year % 4. And I apologize if this was suggested by someone else before, but I don’t read all these comments ^^
May 25th, 2008 at 9:54 pm
http://www.twitter.com/BostonGeohash
Perl script is finished. I set up cron to (hopefully) run it at 10 AM every morning. Now you don’t have to check the website, just get updates sent to your phone. Use it, I worked hard to get this done…
May 26th, 2008 at 1:09 am
On Friday I was all pumped for Saturday’s meetup in Devil’s Lake State Park, north of Madison, WI, because I’d already been planning to go there.
And then I realized I hadn’t changed the date to Saturday. Turns out the meetup was closer to home but not in an interesting location.
May 26th, 2008 at 1:35 am
Thanks for the luck, but it didn’t seam to be enough.
http://wiki.xkcd.com/geohashing/2008-05-24_-43_172
May 26th, 2008 at 1:42 am
i have this problem: every location i get is in the middle of the pacific ocean. and while i consider sailing an impressively interesting activity, the lack of sailing material (namely a sailing boat) tends to render my excursions physically impossible. by the way i live in lima, peru, so yes, i’m aware i’m probably the only one having this problem so far
May 26th, 2008 at 2:18 am
Wiki link in post is broken (”G” is incorrectly capitalized).
May 26th, 2008 at 2:57 am
Your link above is 404. You typed in http://wiki.xkcd.com/Geohashing but I think you meant http://wiki.xkcd.com/geohashing instead.
May 26th, 2008 at 4:02 am
Is it possible for someone to write a script to tell an RSS feed of the locations for all the lazy blobs like me out here. not just for boston but for each box, with a google earth link too?
how many total locations are there? because if you split it too many times will mean its nearly completely unlikely that people will meet.
May 26th, 2008 at 6:22 am
Finally i can calculate random flightplans for my skyship. Anyone else in the bristol area?
May 26th, 2008 at 7:53 am
well are there any europian meetups? i found some people on frappr @ xkcd maps, but there is not many people up there
May 26th, 2008 at 9:16 am
I actually was in range of this past Saturday’s point, as it was land for once. Unfortunately, the point was on a nearby Air Force base - right on the airstrip - and my got towed that day too, so my plans were kinda shot…
The updated coordinate system is a good idea. I’m glad our buddies outside of NA will be able to actually participate. :P
May 26th, 2008 at 9:18 am
Edit to this sentence in my post above:
“and my car got towed that day too, so my plans were kinda shot…
May 26th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
Huzzah for the “Set Default Location” button. While this wasn’t a huge problem for a Clevelander such as myself, it does mean less time finding the location and consequently more time geohashing.
May 26th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
@Chris: Yes, I have, and people make a much bigger deal of that than they need to. The districts are not that difficult to travel in, particularly if you only have a car. Furthermore, they provide very interesting test cases for non-convex geometry. :P Anyway, I was just putting it out there, since people don’t seem very satisfied with the solutions presented already…probably because they require a little bit more effort/money/time, rather than more code. It’s a tradeoff.
May 26th, 2008 at 6:10 pm
On the other hand, an algorithm to keep meetups in one country would be impractical for Western Europe (except probably the UK and Ireland and some other islands). There are no border controls within the EU, so you can travel freely from one country to another. Sometimes you may not even notice that you crossed the border if you don’t pay attention.
May 26th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
[...] Update: The xkcd blag has a follow up article that clarifies the behaviour for Europe, Asia and Australia. It boils down to using the previous [...]
May 27th, 2008 at 5:50 am
It would be interesting to see what the distribution of sites in a square is for a range of Dow values. Is the whole square covered?
May 27th, 2008 at 10:06 am
Or if there is any correlation between the geohash location and the value for the next day. Or meetups could be used to discuss insider trading.
May 27th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
Is it possible to just eliminate the water from the map you use? ie: all maps used will just be landmasses?
Not sure how that would work since it wouldnt be tied into google maps.. just wondering though…
May 27th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Sadly this fails most of the time for San Diego. :(
May 28th, 2008 at 3:55 am
blah… if you are getting inaccessible coordinates, why not just rehash until you get good coordinates?
May 28th, 2008 at 5:56 am
Looks good… too bad today’s spot for the Jerusalem graticule appears to be in an area I would not like to go to. But political situations are hardly your fault. :)
May 28th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
Heebee haaabee hooomeee hooo. Wadda wadda paaadaa poo.
May 28th, 2008 at 9:44 pm
I created a Popfly mashup building block on popfly.com to generate geohashing coordinates. I’ve added it to the wiki if anyone feels like using it. I’ve tried using one of the GeoRSS feeds to get a geohash location but it doesnt seem to pick the right graticule. I may put together a simple GeoRSS service so that i can get a feed of the last few days for a lat/lon on my phone using Windows Live Search Mobile (since it has built in GPS support and directions, et al.)
May 30th, 2008 at 12:09 am
One solution for those who are in a rectangle with mostly water and want to go to meetups is to simply use the most recent date with a geo-hast ending on land for the Saturday meetups.
May 30th, 2008 at 12:20 am
[...] via xkcd » Blog Archive » Geohashing Followup + change to algorithm for Europe, Africa, Asia… [...]
May 30th, 2008 at 12:57 am
Concerning today’s comic: http://xkcd.com/430/
That’s why you either write it down the moment you wake up, or replay the details in your head (which is, of course, faster than writing and therefore probably more effective). You have to do this immediately or it will fade. Once you’ve consciously thought about it, you can safely repeat it to someone else.
May 30th, 2008 at 5:48 am
Mason, then we’d go to the same place over and over, that’s no fun.
May 30th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
Wow! Do I detect a Voyage of the Dawn Treader in the text for today’s comic (#430)?
May 30th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
I don’t understand this at all. When I click the map I see a massive rectangle that covers several cities and a large proportion of the UK.
Am I the kind of person you don’t want to find the meetups? :(
May 30th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
How about an aerial geohashing award for those of us with pilot’s licenses? Air-pirates!
May 30th, 2008 at 9:43 pm
The non-US version thinks the day before 2008-06-01 is 2008-06-30 for some reason, and can’t get market data for it.
June 2nd, 2008 at 9:18 am
Off-topic, but regarding today’s strip… weirdly enough I watched Groundhog Day last night (well, about 3am GMT…). Don’t spose this geohashing malarky brought xkcd to Manchester, did it? I feel spied upon.
June 2nd, 2008 at 1:31 pm
Wow, the location for Plymouth/East Cornwall today is about five minutes walk from my house. Shame I had school today, heh.
June 2nd, 2008 at 1:32 pm
Doesn’t like my lovely non-standard character in my name. It should be this: “?” (”o” with a macron). That’s if it works this time.
June 2nd, 2008 at 3:12 pm
Re: Every Damn Morning, the 5/30 comic: I would email you, O Creator, if you had an address posted, because I wanted to tell you I almost swallowed my fork when I moused over the comic. I was already marveling over its brilliance, but when you invoked one of my favorite parts of my favorite piece of literature ever…words fail me. Thank you.
June 2nd, 2008 at 7:27 pm
What Kat said.
:)
June 4th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
*sigh* I hate it when this happens.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/3nrgq5
June 5th, 2008 at 11:39 pm
Oh common now Dean_Kreger, that’s not too far out? you can swim there!! (remember to take a photo!)
June 7th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
Has anyone thought about implementing a more secure hashing algorithm and a text input to the string being hashed? The possibilities are kind of interesting - once their keys have been safely exchanged, two parties can pick secure meeting locations. But I imagine not everyone needs secret, encrypted meeting locations…
June 8th, 2008 at 6:37 am
You are a mad scientist.
June 8th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
I was taking a physics test a month or so ago, and my teacher had put a comic in it and I thought it looked suspiciously like one of yours, but I wasn’t sure. Well, today, I hit the “Random” button and the first one I came across was “Resonance” or something to that effect, and it was the same comic that was on the test. It kinda made my day and made me like my physics teacher a bit more [but not much, he was kinda a jerk]. I thought it was interesting and wanted to tell you that I really enjoy seeing xkcd in my normal life. :]
June 9th, 2008 at 12:58 am
Re: “xkcd Goes to the Airport”
Actually, in all the states that I’ve been in (and thus, all the states for which I’ve checked the penal code), lockpicks are only illegal if the owner intends to use them to commit a felony (or has “intent felonious,” as the CA Penal Code so eloquently states it).
This very well may have been the case for our amorous protagonist, and airline security would probably claim that picks are illegal, regardless of what the state’s penal code says… but I’m just sayin’.
June 9th, 2008 at 1:21 am
It seems to me that the scheme, as stated, wouldn’t work so well in regions were a large percentage of people do not have access to a vehicle. New York, London, and Tokyo come to mind. (Some people have already stated similar sentiments).
Ironically, this makes it somewhat less likely for people to meet this way in the most populated graticules.
I would recommend a “generally agreed upon custom graticule” for some such metro areas. For instance, we could say for *”central city”* regions where *500k* or more people don’t have their own cars, a custom graticule is made over the region in that city that is *well served by public transportation (perhaps subways and city buses*. (Where * indicates a parameter that may need to be calibrated for optimal results - I’m just getting the idea down). A parallelogram should suffice: it wouldn’t be hard to map the rectangular based meeting point to a parallelogram. This is similar to ideas Cogito and Asa expressed in the last thread.
For example, the NYC graticule might include the five boroughs, Hoboken, Jersey City, and Weehawken (give or take).
June 9th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
As cool of an idea as this is, it ends up being pretty boring in Nebraska. You’re always in some field.
June 11th, 2008 at 3:37 am
As cool as I think I am for living in Nebraska, sometimes I wish that my life didn’t revolve around husking corn and milking cows all day. Oh well, back to the cornfields for me.
June 11th, 2008 at 4:55 am
About today’s comic, where do my fine sisters and brothers in the humanities stand? Above, probably. “All your fields are just meta-narratives, can’t you see?”
June 11th, 2008 at 8:03 am
6/11’s comic: biologist carrying a cephalopod? surely not a tiny nod to PZ?
June 11th, 2008 at 7:06 pm
that is one of the most awesome looking cephalapods i’ve ever seen. can you draw it bigger, please please?
June 12th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
Guys, I know this has nothing to do with this post and that this site is only humorous, but I find, as a sociologyst, that http://xkcd.com/435/ is offensive. Our field has nothing to do with psicology as we don’t see the Society as a group of people but as a being, besides the sociology has a large ammount of methodologic tools that allow really complex analysis. Is really unfair and myopic to say that is not a pure field only because it lacks of an epistemologic consensus, which I personally feel like only works for the improvement of our discipline.
I understand tha xkcd is a comic strip and it does not have any intentions (or I hope so) but 435 is offensive for all of us who breaks our heads out studying constantly only to improve our methods, our ways to understand this whole mess that we call society.
Last but not least, I must say that I really like xkcd. Except mathematics jokes, which I trully don’t understand, it’s a great comic.
June 12th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
Lucas, there’s a forum to discuss this, if you’re interested: http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=23609 . In any case, please don’t feel that “purity” has relationship with “importance” or “goodness” in the case of 435.
June 12th, 2008 at 7:54 pm
Thanks..
June 12th, 2008 at 7:54 pm
Thanks.
June 16th, 2008 at 4:49 am
I felt smart before I read this last post. Now I’m a bit confused. Going to read it again now…
http://death-sentences.blogspot.com
June 16th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
[...] on May 21, 2008, based on an algorithm published in xkcd webcomic #426 (and further refined on the xkcd blog). The algorithm generates random coordinates around the world each day for people to explore on [...]
June 20th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
June 20th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
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June 21st, 2008 at 3:06 am
I dunno who posted after me, but I got one question:
Why you gotta be a dick?
June 23rd, 2008 at 7:19 am
Just signed up to Geohash, to see what it’s all about. Hopefully can make one next week
July 1st, 2008 at 4:37 pm
Please tell us about Megan, Mr. Munroe.
July 1st, 2008 at 9:07 pm
thanks
July 7th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
MEGAN! MEEEEGAAAAAN!